Conversion Rate Optimization Through Split Testing with Andres Glusman of DoWhatWorks

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Andres Glusman 0:00
What we found was that the more experiments we ran, the faster we are the Learn the fast we’re able to learn, the more we’re able to place bets that actually worked. And when you do that, well, then you have a lot more revenue coming in, and then allows you to grow the team, which allows you to spend the money on more tests, which allows you to grow the team, etc, etc. virtuous cycle.

Alexander Ferguson 0:23
Welcome to UpTech Report. This is our appied tech series UpTech Report is sponsored by TeraLeap. Learn how to leverage power of video at teraleap.io. Today, I’m excited to be joined by my guest, Andres Glusman, who’s based in New York, he’s the CEO at DoWhatWorks. Welcome, Andres. It’s good to have you on.

Andres Glusman 0:40
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Alexander Ferguson 0:41
Now DoWhatWorks is a platform, if I uploaded from your website is for growth teams, marketing teams, product teams, basically help them improve their conversion rate in their marketing on their website, or on your website says you can’t test everything. So you might as well do what works. I like to I like to tackle it helped me understand what’s the problem, though, that you set out to solve?

Andres Glusman 1:01
Yeah, so the problem that we start to solve is actually a problem that I used to have when I was the head of product and growth at meetup. But basically, the problem that we’re solving is that marketing teams, growth teams, product teams all over the world, pretty much for any company has people coming to their website, if they’re very lucky, they work really hard to get people to come to their website. And they really live and die based on the conversion rates of the percentage of people who come to the website who actually convert to sign up to become a lead who become a trial who actually buy the product. So it’s kind of one of the most important levers in all business. Yet, when it comes to actually improving your conversion rate. The reality is that everyone is just guessing, no one really knows what’s going to move the needle. If they did, they would have already done it, they would have already optimized it. And so the world’s top companies, the smartest of the bunch, are really smart about running experiments. And they’re able to figure out and learn, okay, how do you improve the conversion rate by virtue of running really smart split tests, or a B tests along the way. But what happens is that even those companies are kind of just guessing about what to test at the end of the day, right. And even worse, is that most of those companies are super constrained in the number of tests they can run. If you’re like the biggest, most like, at his company, in b2b SaaS, you’re really lucky if you can run like 100, maybe 200 experiments on kind of key conversion points in your in your funnel at the top of the funnel in a year, excluding excluding messaging, of course, ads, but like on your website, you’re really lucky if you can get like 100 to 200 tests. And that’s not a lot of tests, if you really think about the billions of dollars that are at stake there. And 80% of those tests, according to Optimizely, fail. So all those companies are running are really working so hard to have a limited number of experiments where most of them fail. And what we help them do and we solve is actually helped them make it so that one, if they’re running tests, they actually are much more likely to have those tests exceed and twos if they’re not lucky enough to run tests, well, then they can learn from everyone else’s experiments, they can learn from the bunch that are running all the tests, so that they don’t have to be constrained. So even if you can’t run experiments, and you want to improve the conversion rate on your website, our platform makes it possible for people to see what’s working for the world’s top companies in their space that they can learn from, and then be able to leverage that and piggyback in order sort of stand on the shoulders of giants to be able to improve their conversion rates faster, find those wins faster, which ultimately, is kind of like the most important lever for them for a whole bevy of different reasons we’re getting into,

Alexander Ferguson 3:38
we’ll circle back to the technology and kind of how you see the space right now and solving it in the future. But I’d love to hear your journey. So let’s take a moment and go backwards. You already gave a mention to that. You notice this problem at meetup you were at meetup for 14 years.

Andres Glusman 3:54
This is a long time. Yes. So I helped launch the company I made their first $14 of revenue had almost every single job you can have inside the company I was except for I was not the CEO CTO, or, or, you know, handful of other small I have other jobs pretty much every other job you can have I took on took on a variety of different leadership roles in the company grew. But yeah, eventually was responsible for product and growth. Where I again, this is where I got enamored with experimentation, I became a pioneer accidentally in the lean startup movement, and was able to sort of understand and get together and extend the power of experiments. And the more we ran experiments, the more quickly we grew. And that was kind of the aha moment for me, which was this Wow, really, really cool.

Alexander Ferguson 4:41
So you saw right in meetup like, were the the power of multiple tests, outcome equals good. You’re just constantly doing that.

Andres Glusman 4:50
Exact I mean, the reality is like our growth rate, we meetup was a great company and we were fortunate to have this good growth rate. But when we started running experiments or growth we were kind of went from this to like bending upwards in a pretty dramatic way. And of course, not every experiment succeeds, in fact, most of them fail. But what we found was that the more experiments we ran, the faster we are the Learn the fast we’re able to learn, the more we’re able to place bets that actually worked. And when you do that, well, then you have a lot more revenue coming in, and then allows you to grow the team, which allows you to spend the money on more tasks, which allows you to grow the team, etc, etc.

Alexander Ferguson 5:24
virtuous cycle is so and we will definitely get into the your solution today, which is helping solve this. But just going back to your, yeah, 14 years of experience, if you were to think of some of the lessons learned of the many tests that you’ve run, if someone wants to be able to run their own tests, what’s an inkling of if you remember a tactic or an experience from those many years that stands out? Because it’s

Andres Glusman 5:48
an interesting question. There’s so many lessons along the way, right? Because lesson set, one is sort of how do you introduce experimentation into a culture that doesn’t have experimentation? It’s not easy. It’s a very difficult thing to do. So there’s one set of lessons or a lot along those lines that we can get into if you want to start that

Alexander Ferguson 6:04
list. Take a second look at that. Because there are many organizations, I’m sure that there may be a key individual that wants to start doing more tests, but no one else is ready for that. Was it that way at meetup? Like, was it not a culture of testing from the

Andres Glusman 6:16
start? Yeah, it not at the start, in part, because you have to understand it’s just 2002. Do that since 2004. So this notion of running lots of A B tests on your website was not extraordinarily common. I mean, there was the technology was very much like you had to really build your own at that point, if you were going to run experiments or find ways of hacking solutions together. But the reality is that even today, with all the technology that’s out there, it’s still hard for a lot of people in organizations to persuade others to run experiments. Because what happens when you run a test? Well, you don’t get the dopamine hit of launching, which is what everyone loves doing, everyone loves to launch, right. So you don’t get the point the flagging around, it actually takes longer often when you run a test to launch. And then when you do, you actually don’t get to move on to the next thing yet, you still have to sort of like manage and monitor this experiment and learn from it. And that takes at least you know, on average for companies about three to four weeks. So if you want to be the person who’s like, Yeah, let’s start running experiments, you’re also going to be seen as the person inside of a company who’s saying, hey, let’s slow things down for a little bit. And nobody likes that person. Really? Nobody likes that person. Yeah. What do you do? Or how do you counter that? The reality is that the while it is a little slower, and might be seen as wasteful and sunk by some people to run experiments, the most wasteful thing you can do is launch things that don’t make a difference, or worse, that make results worse. And so ultimately, it kind of in the long haul, you will come out ahead. And the question is, how do you get people to see that, and it’s not an easy thing to do, right? It’s a hard lesson to teach what I personally learned, and maybe was just fortunate in the path that we took was, I found one very simple place to run an experiment on a very important flow, there was a monetization flow inside the meet up experience. And I found a very simple experiment, we could run that would add, essentially a, an image into this flow. And we persuaded people to run with it, we got the engineering resources, we made it happen. This is before as running product. And lo and behold, it created a double digit lift, and a double digit lift on a monetization flow, month in month out is compound interest, it’s a lovely thing to have happened to a subscription business. And so thankfully, we won on the first time out the gate, and the more times you win, the more times you’re going to get resources to try more things. So that gave us some momentum, a little bit of the ball rolling, and then we just built momentum from there. And it snowballs and snowballs, and snowballs. And eventually, people look around the organization and they say, Well, I want what he’s had. And he’s like, I want those wins. How do I get some of that, and so people eventually try to move towards the things that are working. But obviously, it has to work in order for you to generate momentum.

Alexander Ferguson 8:59
So if anything that the lesson learned is to start small, and just find one little place that’s really close to revenue, they can say, hey, look, we generate more revenue. Let’s let’s create this more. So now let’s, let’s let’s move to the other side of it, if you look at at tests are what how do you run a good test? How do you how do you perform that? Well, what are some lessons learned?

Andres Glusman 9:18
That’s a wonderful question. So what invariably happens with experiments as well is that people go from reluctant to seeing what it can do to almost running too quickly, the other side of the boat and just like saying, let’s let’s get involvements test everything we possibly can, right. And so when testing replaces judgment, that creates a problem. You know, people say, Well, should we have this color button or this color button? I don’t know. Let’s test it. Should we do this? Or should we do that? Let’s test it. So every debate gets resolved with a test, well, then that just creates a backlog of about 30 years worth of experiments, you’re never going to get around to running. Right? So you can’t have that be the case. Well, I will say this which is as a framework, which might be useful to your listeners, or viewers is that there’s kind of a couple kinds of experiments, there’s experiments that are optimization experiments. And there are experiments that are strategic experiments. And the two actually do overlap, and I’ll get into it. So an optimization experiment is something that immediately moves a metric today on a on a metric you care about and a lever you care about. Right? And boy, do organizations love those, especially when they’re very metric oriented and goal driven, it’s really a shot of dopamine to say, Wow, conversion rate just went up 8%, that’s gonna translate in this x millions of dollars more every year. How awesome is that? Right? So those are tactical in that they’re just moving the metric, but they’re not necessarily there, which is great. There’s a strategic question, which is informing a bigger judgment? Or is giving you insights into a bigger concept? For what you could do? Let’s try and think of an example of a strategic question that one might face which is big strategic questions, should we go into this? Should we go? Should we launch this product should I launched this brand new product? Right? One way of launching one way you can do that you can build it and then launch and see if anybody adopts it. The other is you can sort of have a split test, ahead of time offering the product versus not offering the product included, right, and then say, coming soon after the fact. So an experiment related to a strategic question, can sometimes not move the mitten and move the needle at all today, but it gives you the direction or the evidence to move the needle in the future. Right? So I have to believe that you can move into the future, which informs the bigger bet that you can take. And sometimes the tactical bets, also overlap with the strategic ones. And there’s these Venn diagrams, my little fat fingers here, I’m not giving giving you a giving you a good description of it, or good vision of that. But that’s essentially what’s going on. And so those are the two kinds of bets you can make with experimentation. And I guess the question is sort of knowing when to place which kind of bet and the world has a place for both. And we need to, you know, and so basically, what people need to learn is when to apply, which kind, because they’re both really important.

Alexander Ferguson 12:13
It’s thank you for sharing those those lessons learned. There’s I’m sure a wealth of knowledge, right. In fact, if you look at it, you’re yours, though. So up into 2019, you were at meetup, and that’s then 2019. You also begin do what works. What was that? What was that transition process? Like? Were you already in your head thinking, you know, I got an idea. I think it’s time for a breakout of my own. And help me understand what was that transition? Like?

Andres Glusman 12:37
Yeah, that’s a great question. So I’m an entrepreneur, and I joined meetup. And I really thought when I joined meetup that I was gonna be there, like three or four years, and then I was gonna go do my own thing. And, you know, three or four years turned into 1415 years, which was a wonderful, magical journey, an awesome journey that we had along the way, the acquisition, you know, or the exit came a little later than I was anticipating. So it didn’t happen in three years or four years, it came came 14 years later, we were bought by we work and stay there for a year. And then after a year’s time, I had the opportunity to to leave and so basically said, Okay, now, I want to go start my own thing. So the kind of the funny story there is my wife said to me, okay, I know you’ve been wanting to do your own thing for a while, you’ve got one year, one year to go play, I’m giving you angel funding for one year is what she basically said she is the seed funding or angel funder and she said, funding for one year to go play with different ideas. And if you don’t have traction, by the end of the year, you got to get a job.

Alexander Ferguson 13:37
I like the analogy, I hate to funding one year, your wife and says, Okay, that’s it now go get a job. So you’ve been given your ultimatum, and you jump out?

Andres Glusman 13:45
So So yes. So during that year, I explored a lot of different ideas that I just was really interested in and intrigued with. And during that time, I started, I teamed up with an engineer that I’d worked with for over a decade at meetup he was brilliant, one of my absolute favorite people in meetup. And we started getting together and playing with ideas. And one of the things like along the way, I basically had this idea around experimentation. So remembering this problem that I had a meet up, which is this notion of saying, Wow, I really loved running experiments. And I really wanted to learn from other people. But what if I could learn from everyone else? And that was the aha moment was this, like, Oh, I really remember that that bug. And I had this idea for how we could do it. And I said to my co founder, well, I said, Well, what do you think we could do something like this? And he’s like, Yeah, I think we could do it that way. But what if we did this other way might even be better. And so we basically, from there, like, so he hacks something together over a weekend, you know, a couple of days. And we started looking at it and playing with it. And then we looked at the results and we said can it tell us the experiments that are being run by companies we like so we gave it a few companies and sure enough, it came back and it did. And we’re like, wow, this is really cool. But this is really neat. And and so that was this moment of like, oh my god, this is really interesting. And then we showed it to friends of ours. Thankfully, I’m in the product space. I know a lot of product leaders. And we showed friends of ours. And they said, Yeah, if you build this, we will pay you for it. And so we information, what’s that?

Alexander Ferguson 15:20
That’s the best affirmation as Yes, give me your money. That means

Andres Glusman 15:23
absolutely. So actually, the first thing we launched was a stripe credit card form. So the only thing we had online, our only presence online, this is not architecture was the was a stripe payment form. So you went to our website, do what works that I owe, all you would see is a credit card for him at that point. And what we promised them was luck, were, we had the backend engine working in a very rudimentary way. And at that point, we said, we’ll send you PDFs, and of the actual experience after the fact. And we didn’t actually ever deliver those PDFs, we built the Delete, we built the dashboard really, really quickly, faster than we had promised. And then we launched the dashboard for them. And then ever since then, we’ve just been iterating, with these amazing set of people who are really our people we love, like these are friends and find or people who should be our friends, essentially, are the people we work with who are product and growth and marketing leaders. And we’ve just been iterating with them. And for them to help make the experience better and better. And it just started snowballing from there. And so it’s kind of the ultimate Lean journey, like a lot of validation upfront, and then, you know, becomes this other thing that you really just didn’t know what it could be until you started doing it.

Alexander Ferguson 16:37
And you bootstrapped this yourself. Yep. Yep. We were rather

Andres Glusman 16:40
positive from day one. So, so our funding has come from our customers, is how we like to think of it. We’re not against potentially doing a round in the future. But right now, we haven’t needed to. So we’re, we’re driving it on our own. And having having had the the outcomes that we had before the exits certainly didn’t, doesn’t hurt the cause.

Alexander Ferguson 17:02
Right? You have your angel investor, your wife, but what did your wife say? How quickly did you get to this idea after test? Like, what was that? How long did you take? I’m curious of that, Oh,

Andres Glusman 17:11
um, about four and a half, five months, five months of playing and tinkering and evolving. And you know, all those little things that I played with along the way, the conversations that I had, one of the things I did during that exploratory period was I go, I scheduled one day a week for meetings. And I just try and go back to back to back that coffee shops or whatever in the city. And I would I basically line it up, and I just take meetings with anyone I was default, yes, on a meeting, and meet with people doing wildly different things. And all I’d say is, how can I put wind in your back or a cup of wind in your sails? Hmm. And I literally like, I wasn’t asking them for what problem they need to solve. I just literally asked how I can help. And then I’ll try and help. And in the process, trying to learn about different problems, but invariably ended up solving my own, which is kind of funny. But you know, all those conversations sort of built up into this thing that sort of all planted the seeds or maybe created the ground and made it fertile for the idea to pop up.

Alexander Ferguson 18:12
Is there it’s kind of still early in the venture, obviously, a year and a half or so going into it. But is there anything that you’ve learned now that you wish you had gone back and told yourself?

Andres Glusman 18:23
Hmm, yeah, it’s a great question. I mean, we’ve been very, we’re lean people to begin with. So we’re very much all about, you know, letting the data reveal itself, letting the opportunity reveal itself and being very open to possibilities, is really how we see it sort of around optionality creating really good options, and then finding the best options are taken best options that are available. Along the way, what are the things that I wish I had learned a little earlier? I think there’s a tendency when you’re running something or getting it off the ground, to want to be very conservative with cash. And I think what we’ve learned is that there are certain investments that when you make are worth 10x, the investment and so you should spend as much as you can on that thing. For gamble design. Yeah, with one design, like a designer, when, you know, we sort of hacked together early versions of it, we worked with the designer upfront to get us started. And then we didn’t work with a designer again for for multiple months. And then we found a designer and it was like that, you know, the clouds parted and it was like sunny all the time, as a result of being able to work with him because the work that we were doing the output was just so much better. And so yeah, we could get good enough we could do okay, like having the right person with the right expertise and spending the money. So early stage, oh, why? Why design. It’s one of many. There’s a lot of Other examples there of hiring the right person, I just happen to love designers. Because I believe that the expectations that everyone has of technology both direct both business to consumer and business to business, that the bar is constantly being raised. And that people have a very high bar. AND, and OR will have a very high bar for a good a great user experience. And so when I say design, I’m really talking like product designers who can really help you think through and deliver a great experience that also looks visually pleasing everything is expected to be it works the way you think it should. There’s no room and going forward to any kind of technology that involves a human being where you have the luxury of not limited, great user experience. And so therefore, investing into a designer is the fastest, most reliable way of delivering on that, that that promise right or delivering on the expectation.

Alexander Ferguson 21:01
That is a powerful insight for those that are also looking to the great new startups and different things, the the value of investment of a good designer for your product. How big is the team today?

Andres Glusman 21:11
Yeah, we we just crossed 10 people. So we’re a little north of 10 people at this point, we’re pretty sad.

Alexander Ferguson 21:17
Right? You’re not new to the managing people, that’s for sure. Coming from from meetup.

Andres Glusman 21:21
No, that’s right. I’ve learned manage large teams. And it’s it’s really fun. After going through the slog to be able to have really talented individuals that I get to work with now, and change the nature of the day to day work. It certainly has changed a lot in the last last year or so as a result of bringing people on board and quite honestly just accelerates. So

Alexander Ferguson 21:44
that question from a different angle here. You’re bringing a whole new direction of looking at testing by looking at what are the big guys that were they doing? That I can learn from them? What What have been some of the roadblocks or challenges of either making this happen or getting adoption or or any type of roadblocks?

Andres Glusman 22:07
It’s great question. I’m finding myself blinking a lot, which means I’m thinking very hard about about so

Alexander Ferguson 22:13
often is initial sailing may be fine. But there’s whether it’s, it could be the companies that you’re pulling this data from? Or it’s the people that are saying, Can I trust this? Can I can I believe in this? I mean, what I’m curious, what have been some of the pushback or struggles or any? Or is it all been smooth sailing,

Andres Glusman 22:34
although it’d be a lie to say it’s all smooth sailing. But it’s interesting, because I don’t think of I think of like entrepreneurship in this journey, like a series of like going to an amusement park. And and you basically get to ride one ride at a time and finishing the ride buys you the ticket to the next ride. Right? And so for us, the brides that we get to go on are harrowing, they’re, they’re daunting, they’re up and down, they make your stomach turn, you know, they’re making you want to yell sometimes, but they’re exhilarating another time, sometimes all all in the span of like three minutes, right sometimes. So like, when I think about the the rides we’ve been on, you should sort of think a little bit about okay, like, what each ride in this journey along the along this this in this path has basically like been its own series of encounters, like, can we does the technology work was sort of the first set of challenges. Can we actually do this? Does it actually do what we think it does? Yes, yes, yes. Does anyone care about it? Yes. Can we get somebody to pay us money to do it? Right? Yes? Does? Can we do that? Again? Can we deliver the product? Are they gonna be satisfied with it? Does it make a difference for them? Can we build this another workflow? Can we will they retain? And so you know, the answer is, is every single one of those things is a series of roadblocks if you think about it, but it’s also sort of a series of milestones that once you clear, it buys you the ticket to the next ride, which has its own set of roadblocks, right, so I don’t want to come back. It’s sort of to me not around, it’s less existential, and it’s just more about just like continuously facing an uphill climb, which is what entrepreneurship is just getting like, not stoic but being knowledgeable that you’re in it for a long haul and that it’s gonna happen and that you just got to figure out a way through and that’s where we’re at. So you know, now we’re our new set of challenges is how do we do this at the scale that we’re doing it and the next set of challenges will be how do we do it an even bigger scale,

Alexander Ferguson 24:34
etc, etc. The the business model itself right now, is it is it just a flat SAS? Like, monthly yearly subscription?

Andres Glusman 24:44
Yeah, exactly. It’s a subscription tied to tied to different tier is related to what sectors people are choosing to learn from what companies are learning from and how many users that have involved it’s, that’s actually not that’s that’s the least common Look at it of the things we’re working on.

Alexander Ferguson 25:02
The the kind of ability for people to come on just briefly not not long, just share what the product, how does it work? How would someone use it?

Andres Glusman 25:14
Yeah, so the way the product works is, it helps to sort of think about who’s using it, and then how are they using it. So very often, we have sort of two kinds of users, you have the people who get people to the front door, and then the people at a company who get people through the front door, if you think about it, right. So the marketers gets you to the front door with the campaigns that they’re running. And then there’s people whose job it is sometimes they’re on the marketing team, sometimes they’re on growth, or product teams, whose job it is, is to get those potential customers through the front door, on the website. And so those are we helped both of them in different ways. But essentially, in terms of getting people through the front door, the way it works is you identify the kinds of companies you most want to learn from. So let’s say your direct consumer, let’s say you’re in the b2b SaaS space. Obviously, you want to see what your customers what your competitors are doing, and learn from the experiments that they’re running. But much more interesting is learning from companies in a slightly adjacent space that are also serving small businesses, for example, that also are working on a pricing page optimization and trying to figure out like, What should their pricing page look like? And is it a good idea to call out popular? Is it not a good idea? Should? What should the button copy? Say? What should? How should we lay it out? We offer three plans, or four plans or five plans? These are all the kinds of questions that somebody might find themselves facing. If they’re trying to optimize a website to try and get customers to sign up. What Our Customers do is they look at okay, well, who else has have faced these problems? How did they solve them? What did they test? What one and last and then they can make decisions? So the experience, and all this is actually I should have said this originally, I don’t think I said just yet. It’s just the dashboards, the core user experiences, a dashboard and a series of alerts. So you, you look at the dashboard, you’re able to really quickly and easily see sort of what are the either my company or my trend or my page, mobile web or desktop web? Like, what are the different experiments that are being run that are really related to the problem I’m working on or the place or the page I’m working on, etc. And you can basically see what everyone has tried and what won and lost, and then use that to make better decisions. So that’s kind of the core experience in terms of like when somebody’s looking to solve something. There’s also alerts which are really popular, which notify you about things that are happening in your space. And those are really fun to receive, because obviously, the people we work with are very curious and like love learning. And so to see this new experiment just popped up on social proof, just adding stars is that did it work or not work? It’s kind of it’s got its own sense of drama. It’s all fun to watch. And so we were hopeful that it’s it’s fun and useful at the same time. But maybe we’re just serving a very, very specific kind of person who has a weird definition of fun.

Alexander Ferguson 27:57
I love your or angle of that curious for the the ideal customer for you. Are they a certain size like mid market startups enterprise?

Andres Glusman 28:07
Yeah, we will be growing to serve everyone, for sure. But out of the gate, in terms of the beta, we’re really focused on the mid market and enterprise, we have a waitlist people can sign up for that if they’re not quite right for the product just yet. When we move into into their sector, we move a little bit over to to a smaller sized company. We will work with them for sure. But and that’s not in the that’s in the very near term future. But we’re just being very disciplined about our rollout so that we can be sure that we’re serving each segment well as we go to market.

Alexander Ferguson 28:40
Got it. So right now it’s it’s definitely a it’s not a product letter. Rather, it’s not just let me sign up and I can just do it all myself and figure it out. It’s it’s a much more hand holding at the moment and hence the mid market enterprise. Yeah, exactly.

Andres Glusman 28:51
We’re, we’re, we come from the consumer space, we’re very excited about going to that self service model. So in the near term

Alexander Ferguson 29:03
plans, that’s what I like here because I can imagine there’s a lot of startups and other small business that would love to be able to learn with the big guys too. But it’s nice. So that’s on the roadmap. Oh getting

Andres Glusman 29:12
Yeah, and right now people can I mean, we, we want to explore understand the different kinds of Mark like the folks coming in so people can sign up. And they’ll be if they’re not right, right now we put them on a waitlist and we’re gonna be sure to give them the earliest access right now if they sign up earlier. Right.

Alexander Ferguson 29:28
Got it. Thank you so much for sharing the journey that you’ve been on for me to up to this point did the passion excitement you have for testing and the multiple ways for those that want to learn more, you can go over to dowhatworks.io And if even if you’re not a fit yet, you can put yourself on the waitlist. And so when you are thanks again for your time, it’s good to have you on

Andres Glusman 29:47
my pleasure. What a wonderfully interesting set of questions you asked today. So it was real fun.

Alexander Ferguson 29:51
Absolutely. We’ll see you all on the next episode of UpTech Report. Have you seen a company using AI machine learning or other technology to transform the way we live? work and do business go to UpTech report.com and let us know