Senior Care During Covid-19 & Improving Communication with Katherine Wells of Serenity Engage

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Katherine Wells 0:00
The problem I saw was that there were a lot of people involved in the process. And they weren’t talking to each other and they weren’t talking to me.

Alexander Ferguson 0:14
Welcome to UpTech Report. This is our applied tech series. UpTech Report is sponsored by TeraLeap. Learn how to leverage the power of video at teraleap.io. Today, I’m excited to be joined by my guest, Katherine wells, who’s based in Denver, Colorado. She’s the CEO at Serenity Engage. Welcome, Katherine. Good to have you on. Thank you. I’m glad to be here. Serenity is a HIPAA compliant messaging platform for senior care very, very specific application here for this this purpose. I’m curious, when you when you began this, this whole endeavor, what was the problem that you saw and set up to solve?

Katherine Wells 0:51
Yeah, so I was part of that sandwich generation, they call us and the sandwich generation is those of us who have children at home, who have full time careers and family full life. And then we begin to take care of our elderly parents. So we’re kind of sandwiched in between. So I was part of that sandwich generation. And I had what turned out to be a 10 years senior care journey for both my mom and my dad, where I stepped into the role of primary care coordinator. And that didn’t mean that I was doing all of the care. But I was directing the care, I was coordinating the communication between the homecare home health, assisted living memory care, the problem I saw was that there were a lot of people involved in the process. And they weren’t talking to each other, and they weren’t talking to me. And that’s what I set out to solve.

Alexander Ferguson 1:49
Communication is the epitome of everything. But it’s a successful communication means a win or loss and depending on what circumstance but when it comes to family, your family and your loved ones. And this whole area of senior care and elderly care is is if anything is growing is booming, as you just said because of this generation. It’s happening now. When when you talk about streamlining this communication, though, because you felt it you experienced it. i What can you speak to in your websites that save three to five hours a week, streamline the communication staff and families? I mean, do they really spend that that much time is that much communication going back and forth between families and staff?

Katherine Wells 2:37
Absolutely. And it’s it’s not that they’re, there’s so there’s communication happening, but right now it’s happening analog. So it’s very much phone calls, voicemail tag, emails, chasing down email threads, leaving sticky notes. I call it the sticky notes syndrome, because it’s very common that a family member will call a community that their parents live in a senior living community and say, Hey, I’m going to pick that up at 10 o’clock on Tuesday for a dentist appointment, can you make sure he showered and has all his medications, and they’ll write it down on a sticky note. And that sticky note then goes to that either the assisted living side or memory care side and they hope that it gets to the right person. Now I’m not saying all senior care operators operate this way. But it’s the way it’s kind of been done. It’s very paper based very phone based very facts based, very, which is foreign to so many of us who are not in senior care.

Alexander Ferguson 3:40
This This brings actually to quite a reality for me. We just recently my my wife and I kids went to go see my grandmother, and my my mother emails the place and then ideally they print it off and bring it to her to let her know what’s happening that we’re coming to visit her. It ended up they never really got it to her actually we were we got there, sir meeting with her. And then eventually it came with the printed letter and we’re like, No, we’re already here. Thanks. Yeah, it was just so delayed that that whole communication, I imagined that instant communication that would have been so much better. So using that as as a reoccurring theme everywhere,

Katherine Wells 4:15
everywhere, everywhere. The senior care industry, let me be clear, right up front that the people who work in this industry are incredible, they are heroic, and they jump through hoops to care for the people. We love the most, many of them during COVID, which was a miserable time for them, for the staff for the residents for everybody. But imagine being a staff member during COVID and not being able to allow family to come in. That’s heartbreaking to begin with. And then to watch the people in your care go downhill because they’re feeling isolated. They’re missing their family. They’re lonely, they’re sad, they’re scared. They’re not as active and engaged because there’s no way they can be without that extra stimulation. And imagine being a caregiver in that scenario. And what many of them did was they actually spent their holidays with the people we love rather than going home to their own families. So absolutely heroic people work in this system. This is not a people problem. This is a system problem. And it the system was designed years and years ago, 50 years ago. So this is it was designed for the times, then the times have changed. It’s a historically very tech laggard industry. And COVID put a big old spotlight on that. And so everyone is now scrambling for how can we use technology to increase our efficiency to optimize our staff time to to include families in the process. And and that’s the other big shift is there’s a demographic shift of baby boomers moving into senior care. So you may or may not have heard this statistic, but 10,000 Baby Boomers turn 65 every day for the next 20 years. So when you think about that big shift, and that enormous population moving into that now will add on to that that 70% of people over the age of 65 will require paid aging services at some point 70% Today, that’s 39 million people. That’s a lot of people. So given that they will require that who are the people who are their children, their children are the Gen Xers, the Gen Z ears, we all grew up with technology, we are also used to if you’re not going to text me, I’m not going to talk to you. We don’t use the phone, I don’t answer my voicemail, I look at what what the little I get the little bot or whatever where it transcribes it, I look at the transcription and then I might call you back or I might text you. So it’s really about modernizing the industry, bringing it up to where every other industry is we bank online, we know where our dog walked. We know what happened to our kids at daycare, but we can’t communicate about the people who raised us and spent their life loving us and now it’s our turn to give back. So that’s really the the goal. And the interesting thing is that the caregivers, the care team, they really want to include family, they want to hear from family because it helps them It helps them do their job. So it’s

Alexander Ferguson 7:45
not that they don’t want them involved or communicating. It’s just how they do I really appreciate the point you said it’s it’s not a people problem. It’s a system problem. Now, kind of exasperating this issue making it worse is the staffing shortage is like there’s just not enough people to go round. Can you speak to that issue?

Katherine Wells 8:02
Absolutely. We’re in a global caregiver shortage. This is not just a US based problem. There are not enough people to take care of the boomers who are aging and requiring services. This is a well known well documented problem. So we have to turn to technology what happens in every other industry, when you have a shortage of workers you look to automate. So can you automate care? No. But Can Can you automate other things? Can you utilize technology to streamline things and when I talk about on our website, saving three to five hours per week per staff member, just by communicating through an instant group messaging, the reason that works is because you think about all the voicemail tag the email the I’m even in voicemail, I’m calling you, if there are three other people involved in the care of the person we’re talking about, they don’t know what we’ve said. So there’s miscommunications or strat balls. So there’s all the time spent doing that and those numbers actually come from my customers not for me. So this is proven out this is real my customers tell me this and when you can post one post and say here’s what’s happening with this older adult, everybody is on the same page at the same time it just shortcuts all of that.

Alexander Ferguson 9:28
You start this 2018 If I understand correctly, that you got it launched how I understand when you built this this platform, how is it different than other messaging platforms out there? Have you designed it to be specific for healthcare and for for senior care?

Katherine Wells 9:45
It’s great. First thing is it’s HIPAA compliant. That’s number one. Number two, it is designed to be easy to use for everyone and the industry caregiver there are many people in the in the caregiving world In this industry that English is not their first language, or they’ve just graduated from high school. So very young, very inexperienced all the way to 92 year olds. And we need to design for everything and make it just this very complex system, super simple. So HIPAA compliance, user experience, but messaging is only the beginning. That’s the beginning of the platform. So for us, communication is the backbone. And you said that early on that communication is the epitome of everything. It really is at the center of everything. And when we talk about marriages, and relationships with family, it’s really always boils down to communication. So and we’ve proven this in the corporate world, too. So slack is a tool that’s often used in the corporate world, people in this I hesitated because people in the in the senior care industry don’t know Slack. So if you think about how Slack completely changed the corporate world, we’re able to communicate across disparate teams keep everybody on the same page. At the same time, it just, I had a boss who said, I only talk to you in Slack, I’m not talking to you on email. So don’t respond, don’t ever email me anything, I’m not going to respond to you. And that’s the way of the world it really is where we’re shifting to that. So serenity, the messaging platform is somewhat modeled similar to Slack, but designed for easy usage. Slack was designed for developers, so and you can still see some of that in there. And it’s also very cost prohibitive for this industry to get the HIPAA compliant version of it. And it’s not modeled for this industry. So there’s many things but things that we’re building on, I said, that was the very beginning of our platform, things that we’re building on, we’re building on an Alexa component so that we can have voice interactions, and do virtual telehealth sessions, as well as allowing, of course, the families to communicate with their loved one via either video or voice only. So that’s been really exciting to see that take place.

Alexander Ferguson 12:22
It was eventually getting to the point where it’s not even just the the staff members and the end families, but the person who’s get who’s being taken care of can be part of this this conversation, isn’t it? Absolutely.

Katherine Wells 12:32
And it really depends on their level of acuity. So I’m going to give you an example of that. My mom was in memory care, she had Alzheimer’s. So she the last two years of her life, she was nonverbal. I could not call my mom and say How are you doing? I depended on the care staff to tell me how she was doing and what was happening and did the doctor round and did she get her haircut because that’s all that mattered to her. So that’s one situation where she was very high acuity. My dad on the other hand, was in assisted living and he was very verbal. And he would say things like, they haven’t showered me I haven’t eaten in days, nobody’s been here in months and, and I knew they were lies. But that was how he was feeling. And you do lose track of time when you’re when you get to a certain stage in life. It’s it’s hard. And some of that he was trying to tug on my heartstrings to make me come visit more often. But I was visiting really often. So it’s interesting, depending on the level of acuity messaging started my the messaging component of serenity started because of my experience with my mom, mainly because I so relied on the care team. Right? But then we realized that that’s not enough there are plenty of people who are lower acuity and independent living, and we want to keep them independent. And so and and I hate to use this word, but it takes some of the burden off the staff. And by that I mean in independent living. Often they’ll call down to the front desk and say what What time does the cafeteria open again? What’s on the menu tonight? What are the activities today even though the community spends a lot of time printing out all that information, putting it under their doors, put posting it you know, in the hallways, so what we’re doing with the Alexa component there is allowing them to ask Alexa, what’s on the menu? What time does Dining Room A open? Do I have packages? Can you RSVP me for the grocery bus? Alexis talking to me? I’m sorry. Alexa, stop. I need to

Alexander Ferguson 14:48
be listening as well. I always switch to Amazon. So I just say Amazon device.

Katherine Wells 14:54
Thank you. Yes, Echo is really the correct term, the echo device.

Alexander Ferguson 14:59
There we go. What’s so what’s so funny for those who have seen this, there was a long time ago a spoof made as an SNL or something on echo silver, what’s up, so it was funny, but at the same time like actually would kind of be helpful for some of those elements. And that’s what you’re doing. You’re building in in. But it’s it has to be done at the local level that that they’re inputting their information that that senior care facility so that that person can actually ask those questions. And there’s that information to pull it from. So you’re providing the connection, the two databases together?

Katherine Wells 15:31
Absolutely. And what we’re allowing is for it to be a little bit kind of white labeled. So it’s, it’s echo device for Acme Senior Living, right. So it’s very specific. It’s a closed network. And the other interesting thing that we’re seeing is that some of these communities are getting rid of their PBX, once they have this closed network of echo devices in the rooms, because family and providers, if they’re allowed, if they’re given permission to access that device, they can just call into that device directly. And what happens in that kind of a closed network is you eliminate all the spam calls, because you decide who is allowed to call in.

Alexander Ferguson 16:18
That is, is so important and powerful, because we I’ve seen that as well with my grandmother, and it’s like, don’t don’t take those calls, please. The it’s an issue. But what’s interesting is we did we did get her I also think it was a portal. Because at the time it made sense, we got two of them, but she couldn’t figure out how to use it. And then there’s still it’s like we’re getting closer with the hardware. But the idea that it would be just mostly all already there and taken care of and in part of that closed loop, because it’s not like the health care facility that the people there know how to use the portal, but it’s like we’re getting closer to if it’s provided or the it’s actually just part of the the the use case for the delivery. Am I getting

Katherine Wells 17:01
that? Right? Absolutely. And when it becomes something that’s just part of the fabric of the way the community works, then it’s a non issue. And yes, there is a learning curve. Yes, there are some road bumps for sure. And there are people who will never use it for a variety of reasons. That’s okay. Right now, communities are working on putting LG TVs in every room because they can then add the channel, that channel on the TV that has all their information, just always scrolling. totally great. What we believe the echo devices can do, they can also be televisions, so it doesn’t matter. And the new echo device, if you haven’t seen it, I’m going to geek out for just a minute. The new echo devices, a 15 inch flat screen that can hang on your wall. So it looks like a television or you know something that’s innocuous and you can have the same things like photos scrolling while you’re not using it, but you can still access it the exact same way there that Amazon has pre announced an astro robot. Dog robot love it. I think that they’re you know, I’m not saying robots are never going to replace caregivers in my opinion, and nor should they at least in my lifetime. Can they augment can they help with having some companionship, some interaction? Absolutely 100% They can. And I could see some of that happening. And even as small as there’s a there’s a I think it was Hasbro that did this. Cats and dogs for senior for seniors that are not real, but they act like they are. And it’s very, very cool because pets, that so much research on people who have had pets in their lifetime and how they will calm them in their older years when they have dementia and can’t remember things and then they don’t have to take care of the pet. Right there’s no picking up there’s no feeding, there’s no training. There’s no having the cat pee in the bed. Nothing like that.

Alexander Ferguson 19:17
Elder care that’s that’s definitely the the next level, what what I kind of popped in my head is like bringing down the ease of for seniors now we get to to when they’re there to interact with technology to communicate with who they need, where they want to talk to, and get the information they want to that’s going to be powerful. I wonder though, if once they figure it out, it’s not abused. That’s not the right word to say abuse the system. But my finally my grandmother did figure out how to communicate with my mother. And so she uses messenger and so now she’s calling her all every day. It’s just giving her a ring. Could there be a case where now they’re going to be like calling the doctor or calling the nurse just because now they know how to do it. And how do you see that that will work have, Is there too much communication could that happen?

Katherine Wells 20:03
Anything can happen. You can’t control human nature, you can try to drive behavior. And I, you know, I believe I would have to verify this, but I believe there is a way to set it up so that it limits who you can call out to, but allows certain people to be able to call in. And the big thing with the echo devices that people were initially fearful of is that anyone could drop in. And I don’t know if you’ve used them, but the drop in capabilities, I think, initially, when they were first launched that it was a little could have been invasive, it they have worked so hard on this, Amazon is really focused on providing value in the senior care world. So they’re not dumb, they know exactly how to sequence this, and, and they got the information they need, you know that like every software company does, or hardware company or any business, really, you go out with something and you get your learnings and you develop a new hypothesis, and you go out and test that. And so my point there is that they continue to learn, they’re very aware of the issues and potential issues. And could they could grandma call the family constantly? Absolutely. 100% she could?

Alexander Ferguson 21:28
Is that really a bad thing? Because if she wants to call we should be picking up?

Katherine Wells 21:33
Or or you just don’t answer. I mean, like, we have these, you teach people how to treat you in life. And sometimes they need a little bit of behavioral training, but also the the concept of if they’re reaching out all the time, what’s really going on? Is it loneliness? If it’s loneliness, what can you do? I think it is a struggle for family. If that does happen, I don’t. So far, I haven’t seen it happen a lot. I see it happen, like in the initial rollout, because it’s kind of new and different. And then things settle back in. But, you know, there’s always the the jokes about his grandma gonna call Tasmania is grandma gonna call next?

Alexander Ferguson 22:20
Going back to the communication in the staff side? Because one is is definitely connecting the families with the the the one who’s being taken care of their family member and then and the immediate step, but internal communications is also the staff to doctors. Is that also for the platform itself?

Katherine Wells 22:39
Absolutely. So if you think about our messaging platform, which is also Alexa as part of our messaging platforms, it’s an extension of that the messaging platform is very much a mobile messaging app, right. And so imagine, I’ll take my mom, for example. So my mom’s in memory care, and she becomes a fall risk. That means that I have to figure out family who can be there 24/7 Or I have to hire homecare to be there. 24/7 very expensive, but it does happen. And usually it’s over a period of time, it could be a week, it could be a month. Well, they work on on physical therapy and things to help her not be a fall risk. So that’s what one of the things that can happen when we have a message when we have a channel for my mom, and I’m in there and the care staff at the memory care in there. And we now bring in homecare, we just add them into the channel. So very easy to add and remove people from the channel. This works in two great ways. One is the caregiver crisis means that there is a tremendous amount of turnover in the industry. Caregivers are coming and going all the time. When you take out a caregiver and add a new one, they can get up to speed really quickly. So you don’t miss a beat. You don’t have to start a new thread, which is what happens in most messaging systems, you have to start a whole new thread because there’s new people, none of that happens. Right. Then the second side to that is now the homecare is in there so there’s never a question of what’s going on. And did the homecare make their visits? Did they actually show up? Because that’s another thing. And again, it’s the it’s the worker crisis that’s happening more so than the people who are providing the care.

Alexander Ferguson 24:35
And so someone if you’re having in home care, this is a family could sign up in use as well not just a facility.

Katherine Wells 24:43
Absolutely, absolutely. And we encourage families to use it. We were we’re still early stage. So what we’re working towards is building it out such that when you when your mom or dad begins to need help you go to sleep nit, you start an account at Serenity. And there are many things that we’re building out that I won’t share quite yet that are going to be able to follow you and your loved one across the entire senior care journey. Because the only people who are consistent in that journey are your, your loved one, your older adult and and your family. That’s it. There are different providers coming in and out at different times, you might start at home by hiring homecare to come in and just help with cooking some meals and cleaning the house a little bit and running them to the dentist, doing some grocery shopping. But if you don’t live in town, or if you’re working full time and have a full life, you still want to know as a family member did that homecare person show up? Because even then with my parents, I would call and say did they did Melissa show up today? That wasn’t her name. I’m using a different name to Melissa show up today. And you know, do you have some food in the fridge? And my dad would say thanks. So. But she did and he didn’t have dementia. It’s just he’s kind of, you know, working through life and emotional because my mom’s Alzheimer’s was, you know, she was still living at home too. So like, he just wasn’t connecting the dots when I would call so that can be really like that can give family a heart attack. We’re paying for these services. And if it’s home health, which is even more important, and the self report is they didn’t show up. That’s not okay. So for a family to start an account, and then begin to invite in the homecare and home health providers and ask them to just say, Hey, I was here today. And here’s what we did. That’s it. Two seconds. Yeah, nothing more.

Alexander Ferguson 26:48
Yeah. Okay. It comes back to that communication, it’s like that it means less stress. You feel things can flow smoothly. And it’s the miscommunication can cause the terrible things. They’re not good things and what you don’t want to happen. I’m curious, with this rollout that what you’ve seen, is there been any pushback from like the the facilities, senior care facilities, other places? What is their attitude to this? And as though there? Are they already are ready to adopt? What does that look like?

Katherine Wells 27:20
Well, it’s shifted dramatically since COVID. As you can imagine, I will, I will say that the industry is still a little bit split. As we’re beginning to transition into more of a technology based industry or technology, embracing technology as an industry, pre COVID, 60% of all senior care CEOs were expected to retire in five years. So that’s a lot and and I use the word intentionally retire, that means they’re aging out. So those are the people who have been in the industry, which means two things. One, we’re two years into COVID, almost. So that’s already three years away. But COVID also accelerated that because if you have been doing this for 2530 years, you were already planning to retire, you’re like, I think I’m done. So we’re seeing a great acceleration of that. What that means is that younger people are moving into the leadership roles, people who have grown up with technology, expect technology. And so it’s accelerating that technology push. What it also means is that they’re looking at the industry differently. This industry was designed specifically for regulatory and administrative compliance, which is why everybody is siloed. They all work in their silos. And serenity is asking them to break the barriers of those silos by communicating with each other. So yes, it’s a challenge. And there are some who say, and I want to say this, because this is really important. There are still people in the industry, who as providers say, I can’t have transparent communication, because it opens us up to litigation. Now, exactly the look on your face. Thank you. That is their concern.

Alexander Ferguson 29:23
isn’t something I’m like, if you if you if you’re trying to bring transparency, that should be a good thing, unless you’re hiding something?

Katherine Wells 29:29
Well, and I think, you know, I want to say, if I had to guess I’d say 2% are actually hiding something. It’s very, very small. But they have been they’ve had the fear of the worst possible things happening put into their minds, and therefore they run their business based on am I going to get in trouble rather than Is this the right thing to do now? I also want to say there are four thinkers in the industry who totally do not subscribe to that. And those are the ones who are my customers. And that’s where I see the industry going, because family will not put up with it anymore. And that’s the difference. We’re at the precipice of a huge tipping point of the consumerization of this industry, where right now the power is really with the supply side, which is the providers. And I see it shifting, like everything else to the power being in the consumer side, the the demand side, and and by that I mean, think about Uber, Uber had to first have drivers before they could sign up riders, right. So we’re starting with providers, and adding in the the family members, because they’re the demand side, and eventually we’re aggregating family members and family will see that they have agency here that they have a say. I’ll go back to one. One thing I didn’t say at the very beginning, I believe that the family member, the primary care coordinator, is the economic buyer for these services. And here’s why. We may not be writing the check out of our own checkbook, we might be people are doing that. In my case, I was Power of Attorney for my parents for both healthcare and financial. So I was writing the check out of their checkbook. So I was I had a big say, right? But even when I wasn’t, I was on their shoulder saying, hey, I need you to go to this community because that’s closer to me. I’ve checked it out, or I need you to hire this home health. I’ve done all the research, I know their reviews. I’ve talked to people, they’re the right one. So I was directing the spend. And there are 40 million people like me family members, who are directing the spend for a half a trillion dollars in paid aging care services. And nobody’s paying attention to them. And that’s why this is all going to shift because we’re not going to put up with it.

Alexander Ferguson 32:11
This this talk about this major shift that’s happening. And I’m curious, do you see being able to get like the doctors and help overall health care providers involved in this as well? Because often you talk to the immediate nurse or whoever’s taking care of it, but the doctors involved? Are you already doing this? Do you see this as part of this in the future?

Katherine Wells 32:31
It’s great. It’s such a great question, because everybody asks that. And you know why they ask it because they know already that doctors are really hard to get to do these things, right. And doctors do not want two way communication. They want to push information to you. But they don’t really want to have an ongoing text thread with you. Right. And that’s fair. That’s fair, they shouldn’t they they have a specialty. So do I think doctors eventually will get on in the future, I see it for sure. Pretty far out in the future. In the meantime, though, what happens is when you’re already engaged in aging services of any kind, typically, you’re switching from your normal family physician to a geriatric physician, and most of the geriatric physicians round, which means they’ll go to the assisted living the senior living, and they’ll they’ll have a day at each senior living, right, and they just see all their patients, they just go through them. So they’re used to traveling, they’re used to having these conversations with family, they’re used to, you know, making sure that everybody knows what’s happening for the best care of their loved one. They do get on serenity, and usually they assign a PA or, or somebody to manage the communication side of it. But we have the capability for them to just push information and not be pinged back as well, if that’s something they’d like to do.

Alexander Ferguson 34:02
When you look at the future of the space and the technology, where it where it’s going, if you were to make a prediction of what we can expect, like let’s let’s look a little bit down the road. So more like three, five years from now, what is it gonna look like?

Katherine Wells 34:18
Beyond that, I would say it doesn’t look like what we see today. Three to five years is short enough that it I think that we will see a lot more technology, streamlining, and automating the things that just don’t require human interaction. I think that we will see what I’m calling ambient care. And if you think about the word ambient, it’s, it’s really it means that it’s just there. It’s not intrusive, it’s not like you have to run to a computer or you know, run to a device to make something happen. It’s just there. I see it. A world of ambient care and having care information from any device anytime, anywhere. Such that if you’re driving in your car, I used to work for an AI company. And I’m thinking about the scenario that we had. Where you could be talking on your phone, let’s say at home, and you walk to your car, and it just transfers to your car. Well, this happens now, it didn’t happen at the time that we were talking about it. And then you leave there and it transfers to wherever you are. So it’s the idea of having care, regardless of having the care information at your fingertips. This is important for staff in particular that Rome, so by Rome, I mean, they they visit the assisted living, they go see you at home. So hospice care, most people think of it as a hospital that you go to to die, there are those but that’s not most of hospice. Most of hospice is rounding at your home or, or at your home in a senior living community. And so that means those nurses and that those CNAs are in social workers, they’re on the road all the time. So for them to not have to pull up a laptop, they still have to document the no question they have to get their documentation done. But to be able to do all of this just virtually through boys through video through text when they want to. It just streamlines everything.

Alexander Ferguson 36:36
It is the future of streamlining and I like your your terminology of ambient care in the technology providers ampion care wherever you’re wherever you are. For those that want to learn more, you can go over to Serenity engage calm, that’s serenity, engaged, calm. Thank you, Catherine for sharing both the journey and what you’re building, and this future of of care and communication. This is awesome. Thank you, Alexander. And we’ll see you all on the next episode UpTech Report. Have you seen a company using AI machine learning or other technology to transform the way we live, work and do business? Go to UpTech report.com and let us know